“If we do not give thanks daily for the Christian fellowship in which we have been placed, even where there is no great experience, no discoverable riches, but much weakness, small faith, and difficulty; if on the contrary, we only keep complaining to God that everything is so paltry and petty, so far from what we expected, then we hinder God from letting our fellowship grow according to the measure and riches which are there for us all in Jesus Christ.”
"Many enter into ministry with the ambition to make a church what they think it could be instead of what it is and what it probably will be. Until we understand what the church is — a fellowship of sinners at different locations on a journey — we will not understand what the church could be and can be." Rarely do pastors make attenders aware there is a spiritual journey. Which suggests they don't realize it either.
I read Life Together with a group in the fall. What you've quoted here are what I highlighted in yellow. I read this last night and then went out and looked for your Restore 2022 presentation. What you have convinced me here is, I may as well attend the closest church. Thank God for the internet. I can get the teaching I believe is accurrate, need from all over the country. The problem with that, and your teaching, is that CREATES the expectation! I certainly DO have unrealistic expectations! I didn't know it until I read this! I COMPLETELY expect men, good luck finding women in any pulpits around here, who have been mentored by people like Dallas Willard and YOU to live out with their body and mouth what you teach. I am so grateful for this post! I actually BELIEVED that they believe it. My mistake!!!
Another burden lifted. So, now, I want to internalize "there will be tension in the church, which is precisely where we need to begin to see what the church is. Not a fellowship of those who agree or who are alike but a fellowship of those who don’t agree and who are not alike . . and eventually (if we have the guts) we start a church that begins the same old process of a fellowship of those agree who eventually become those who disagree and who split." Ok . . agree, disagree, split.
Given the age we live in, I do have an expectation that leaders know how people are designed and treat them how we are designed REGARDLESS of THEIR UNRESTORED wounding. Pastoring is getting EXACTLY like therapist. "You cannot go where you haven't gone yourself". Spiritual abuse is understood and promoted by unrestored wounding. Bonnehoeffers assertions are based on not knowing how people are designed. But we DO know NOW. When I looked at your presentation, I also saw that you resigned from Northern Seminary. Because of a toxic environment. THAT environment is people who haven't done their work. And you had to leave. You're on a journey :)
A great word Scot … and one that I believe could describe many of us through these last 20-30 years. As I get older, and now no longer leading the local church, I find myself deeply drawn to the cross and the table, and what they mean for the community of faith.
I just wrote about this same thing yesterday using the music of Rich Mullins as my springboard, whereas you use Bonhoeffer's book, "Live Together," which I've never read, but will now because I've just ordered it after reading this post. In my post that I entitled, "The Joy of Jesus," I postulate that the "joy" to which Jesus looked that enabled Him to endure His coming Cross, even despising the shame of it, was US, His Holy Church, the faith filled people He lovingly calls "His Bride." Which begs this question, "If we are this to Him, how can we not overlook our petty preferences and just love being together with Him and with one another?" Maybe there should be a sign out front of churches, "Everyone welcome . . . but please leave your expectations at the door!" https://themjkxn.substack.com/p/the-joy-of-jesus?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
I’ve struggled, especially post seminary. But when I learned that I’m an imperfect human who is filled with complexity, I had more grace for myself and the Church. I still think we need the prophetic voice to call the Church back to Jesus. But we do it within the church, and not on social media, from my living room, or from another church. And we do it with compassion, care, and invested in the community. Bonhoeffer FTW! :)
“If we do not give thanks daily for the Christian fellowship in which we have been placed, even where there is no great experience, no discoverable riches, but much weakness, small faith, and difficulty; if on the contrary, we only keep complaining to God that everything is so paltry and petty, so far from what we expected, then we hinder God from letting our fellowship grow according to the measure and riches which are there for us all in Jesus Christ.”
"Many enter into ministry with the ambition to make a church what they think it could be instead of what it is and what it probably will be. Until we understand what the church is — a fellowship of sinners at different locations on a journey — we will not understand what the church could be and can be." Rarely do pastors make attenders aware there is a spiritual journey. Which suggests they don't realize it either.
I read Life Together with a group in the fall. What you've quoted here are what I highlighted in yellow. I read this last night and then went out and looked for your Restore 2022 presentation. What you have convinced me here is, I may as well attend the closest church. Thank God for the internet. I can get the teaching I believe is accurrate, need from all over the country. The problem with that, and your teaching, is that CREATES the expectation! I certainly DO have unrealistic expectations! I didn't know it until I read this! I COMPLETELY expect men, good luck finding women in any pulpits around here, who have been mentored by people like Dallas Willard and YOU to live out with their body and mouth what you teach. I am so grateful for this post! I actually BELIEVED that they believe it. My mistake!!!
Another burden lifted. So, now, I want to internalize "there will be tension in the church, which is precisely where we need to begin to see what the church is. Not a fellowship of those who agree or who are alike but a fellowship of those who don’t agree and who are not alike . . and eventually (if we have the guts) we start a church that begins the same old process of a fellowship of those agree who eventually become those who disagree and who split." Ok . . agree, disagree, split.
Given the age we live in, I do have an expectation that leaders know how people are designed and treat them how we are designed REGARDLESS of THEIR UNRESTORED wounding. Pastoring is getting EXACTLY like therapist. "You cannot go where you haven't gone yourself". Spiritual abuse is understood and promoted by unrestored wounding. Bonnehoeffers assertions are based on not knowing how people are designed. But we DO know NOW. When I looked at your presentation, I also saw that you resigned from Northern Seminary. Because of a toxic environment. THAT environment is people who haven't done their work. And you had to leave. You're on a journey :)
Thank you so much for this. Ginger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=va3isBtCMiU
amazing accurate teaching :) Comer quotes you
A great word Scot … and one that I believe could describe many of us through these last 20-30 years. As I get older, and now no longer leading the local church, I find myself deeply drawn to the cross and the table, and what they mean for the community of faith.
I just wrote about this same thing yesterday using the music of Rich Mullins as my springboard, whereas you use Bonhoeffer's book, "Live Together," which I've never read, but will now because I've just ordered it after reading this post. In my post that I entitled, "The Joy of Jesus," I postulate that the "joy" to which Jesus looked that enabled Him to endure His coming Cross, even despising the shame of it, was US, His Holy Church, the faith filled people He lovingly calls "His Bride." Which begs this question, "If we are this to Him, how can we not overlook our petty preferences and just love being together with Him and with one another?" Maybe there should be a sign out front of churches, "Everyone welcome . . . but please leave your expectations at the door!" https://themjkxn.substack.com/p/the-joy-of-jesus?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2
Thank you for this, Majik. Well worth our consideration.
I’ve struggled, especially post seminary. But when I learned that I’m an imperfect human who is filled with complexity, I had more grace for myself and the Church. I still think we need the prophetic voice to call the Church back to Jesus. But we do it within the church, and not on social media, from my living room, or from another church. And we do it with compassion, care, and invested in the community. Bonhoeffer FTW! :)
Life Together is such a fabulous book and one that we need today more than ever.
Thank you .