Thank you for this synopsis. I wish I could afford to get all the interesting books all the time, but I can't, so this is extremely helpful. You've given me a way to approach this issue because I've heard this objection about the "God of the Old Testament" as a violent, vengeful God.
"The battles are exaggerated and at times probably so hyperbolic they are more like fiction than history." I thought that comment was helpful---helps me deal with Jericho. If you were still at TEDS, Scot, would they give you the boot for that? We just arrived home for Texas, driving today from Arkansas to Grand Rapids, John riding shotgun the entire way, as he normally does. He reads to me while we drive, this morning the first chapters of Job. I delivered 5 days of lectures on that book several years ago at InterVarsity's Cedar Campus in the UP of Michigan. I taught it as a parable, as I believe it is, but it caused a bit of controversy. Are you ever going to write a book or some posts on the Book of Job, Scot. If you do, I'll comment on why I believe it's the grandest parable of the Bible. BTW, John reads aloud only from the KJV. It would make old David Otis Fuller proud (were he still alive)!
I remember worrying about redaction criticism and there was an instinct to think plain meanings were history-referring, too. Prophetic/apocalyptic language has so much hyperbole -- it shocks me when I read folks like Ryrie and Thomas who insist time and again on the literal meaning and literal fulfillments. It doesn't take much imagination to think blood up to the horse's mouth is a bit overcooked. On Job, I read it every year and do my best but it's a hard one. I tend to think of it as a drama. I will read it next year in the new translation, but I can't think of the author's name. A solo translation of just Job. Goldingay's translation made me think that book is harder to translate than most translations indicate. I've not yet read Alter's. It's been -- let's give it a round number -- around 40 years since I read it in the KJV. Bless John for me.
That comment was helpful for me too. I've been wrestling a bit lately with those sections of the OT, particularly the parts where the command to destroy entire people groups comes from the mouth of God.
I wonder if the people who see OT vs NT are looking at the Bible incorrectly and don't see the big picture. I believe the Bible shows Jesus as God, from before time began to after time ends. Our sin and violent nature that our actions unleashed is described, as well as God's reaction to this. That doesn't mean He is a different God from before creation, to after Jesus birth, to after time ends, but how He can't abide in sin. People tend to make our sin God's fault, and that is incorrect.... Instead I see the Bible as a love story between God as the trinity and us and the extent He went to to redeem our sin and live eternally In Him. (I have this book on my To Be Read list and haven't read it so I may be wrong....)
Looking through the wide scope lens always leads to wisdom as it's too easy to lock down on one particular scene and then push it too hard. God's redemptive graces run straight through the whole Bible.
Regarding the conquest, it's interesting that in Genesis 15 it's already foretold to Abraham that his lineage would suffer and then in the fourth generation they would return to their land. Why? Because the sin of the Amorites was not yet full. If you track the conquest and where the hebrew word (ḥērem) for "devote to destruction" is in areas of Amorite lineage...now what the amorite's sin was all about isn't as clear, but the judgement on sin delayed by 400ish years shows the mercy and patience of our just God.
"Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?'" (Rev. 6:16-17)
Perhaps Jesus isn't as cute and cuddly as many assume. And God's wrath seems like bad news to comfortable, rich Americans who wince at the slightest bit of adversity. If you're a Christian in Syria living under constant threat of brutality and death, however, God's wrath might be really, really good news.
Thank you for this synopsis. I wish I could afford to get all the interesting books all the time, but I can't, so this is extremely helpful. You've given me a way to approach this issue because I've heard this objection about the "God of the Old Testament" as a violent, vengeful God.
"The battles are exaggerated and at times probably so hyperbolic they are more like fiction than history." I thought that comment was helpful---helps me deal with Jericho. If you were still at TEDS, Scot, would they give you the boot for that? We just arrived home for Texas, driving today from Arkansas to Grand Rapids, John riding shotgun the entire way, as he normally does. He reads to me while we drive, this morning the first chapters of Job. I delivered 5 days of lectures on that book several years ago at InterVarsity's Cedar Campus in the UP of Michigan. I taught it as a parable, as I believe it is, but it caused a bit of controversy. Are you ever going to write a book or some posts on the Book of Job, Scot. If you do, I'll comment on why I believe it's the grandest parable of the Bible. BTW, John reads aloud only from the KJV. It would make old David Otis Fuller proud (were he still alive)!
I remember worrying about redaction criticism and there was an instinct to think plain meanings were history-referring, too. Prophetic/apocalyptic language has so much hyperbole -- it shocks me when I read folks like Ryrie and Thomas who insist time and again on the literal meaning and literal fulfillments. It doesn't take much imagination to think blood up to the horse's mouth is a bit overcooked. On Job, I read it every year and do my best but it's a hard one. I tend to think of it as a drama. I will read it next year in the new translation, but I can't think of the author's name. A solo translation of just Job. Goldingay's translation made me think that book is harder to translate than most translations indicate. I've not yet read Alter's. It's been -- let's give it a round number -- around 40 years since I read it in the KJV. Bless John for me.
That comment was helpful for me too. I've been wrestling a bit lately with those sections of the OT, particularly the parts where the command to destroy entire people groups comes from the mouth of God.
I wonder if the people who see OT vs NT are looking at the Bible incorrectly and don't see the big picture. I believe the Bible shows Jesus as God, from before time began to after time ends. Our sin and violent nature that our actions unleashed is described, as well as God's reaction to this. That doesn't mean He is a different God from before creation, to after Jesus birth, to after time ends, but how He can't abide in sin. People tend to make our sin God's fault, and that is incorrect.... Instead I see the Bible as a love story between God as the trinity and us and the extent He went to to redeem our sin and live eternally In Him. (I have this book on my To Be Read list and haven't read it so I may be wrong....)
Looking through the wide scope lens always leads to wisdom as it's too easy to lock down on one particular scene and then push it too hard. God's redemptive graces run straight through the whole Bible.
Regarding the conquest, it's interesting that in Genesis 15 it's already foretold to Abraham that his lineage would suffer and then in the fourth generation they would return to their land. Why? Because the sin of the Amorites was not yet full. If you track the conquest and where the hebrew word (ḥērem) for "devote to destruction" is in areas of Amorite lineage...now what the amorite's sin was all about isn't as clear, but the judgement on sin delayed by 400ish years shows the mercy and patience of our just God.
"Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, 'Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?'" (Rev. 6:16-17)
Perhaps Jesus isn't as cute and cuddly as many assume. And God's wrath seems like bad news to comfortable, rich Americans who wince at the slightest bit of adversity. If you're a Christian in Syria living under constant threat of brutality and death, however, God's wrath might be really, really good news.