This is a great post. What I think I hear you suggesting is still keeping academic rigor while infusing it with a lot more practical ministry and experience. As a pastor of 25+ years I resonate with that. I have two masters degrees and a ThD and frankly, 70% of my day to day activities are not aided by those degrees at all - it has to do with experience I’ve developed over time in the various positions I’ve held. The other 30% is essential, but still a minority of what I do. Not sure what that says about me or the office of pastor, but it is my experience.
And why aren’t classes offered involve spiritual formation, required counseling to sort through what might breed harm from unhealthy, immature internal issues that have direct impact on decision making, self deception that could led to protecting image over people?
I think you're mistaken here. I don't know all seminaries but my understanding is that spiritual formation classes are provided and required for MDiv students. That's not the issue. The issue has to do with character formation, and it has to do with mentoring. A class will not a spiritually formed person make. It can help.
And yes Scot, to your point, the mentoring must continue. I’m just frustrated over the practices causing harm and hidden under the facade of ‘mentoring’ when it’s actually a system avoiding truth .. the ‘good old boys’ system thriving
I mean with personal inner work involved, not just a regular course. Chuck DeGroat said he was arrogant etc and had much baggage and he’s grateful for the mentoring that led him to get counseling. He seems to suggest it’s all too rare and that he would’ve caused harm to others without that timely intervention.
Good thoughts. Essentially, apprentice programs need to be instituted. The other issue is determining what is best for learning how to make disciples, and learning that skill. If we are all about "leadership" in the CEO model, or all about being effective "communicators", rather than how to be a pastor, then it needs to be seen if that is the best method of discipleship in given contexts. As you mentioned, the world is changing, and we can adapt such training as an "art", but if the "art" is ineffective and/or outdated, then such apprentice programs will not be very helpful.
Are there any apprentice type programs available now? I worked for a Christian residential community (fellowship program, they lived there 9 months post college) and fellows were paired with a mentor in their field. Essentially learning from the mentor what following Christ looked like in their field, challenges they might face etc
However, if the ‘art’ being practiced is toxic or within a toxic system, abusers are permitted to flourish. Example: “And now with the help of mentoring Pastor Bob Russell, Pastor Emeritus of one of the largest churches in the country, Garcia is starting to minister again.”
And “A phrase we heard a lot was ‘he comes from good stock’. ”
This is a great post. What I think I hear you suggesting is still keeping academic rigor while infusing it with a lot more practical ministry and experience. As a pastor of 25+ years I resonate with that. I have two masters degrees and a ThD and frankly, 70% of my day to day activities are not aided by those degrees at all - it has to do with experience I’ve developed over time in the various positions I’ve held. The other 30% is essential, but still a minority of what I do. Not sure what that says about me or the office of pastor, but it is my experience.
And why aren’t classes offered involve spiritual formation, required counseling to sort through what might breed harm from unhealthy, immature internal issues that have direct impact on decision making, self deception that could led to protecting image over people?
https://julieroys.com/podcast/my-pastor-called-it-an-emotional-affair-but-it-was-abuse/
I think you're mistaken here. I don't know all seminaries but my understanding is that spiritual formation classes are provided and required for MDiv students. That's not the issue. The issue has to do with character formation, and it has to do with mentoring. A class will not a spiritually formed person make. It can help.
And yes Scot, to your point, the mentoring must continue. I’m just frustrated over the practices causing harm and hidden under the facade of ‘mentoring’ when it’s actually a system avoiding truth .. the ‘good old boys’ system thriving
I mean with personal inner work involved, not just a regular course. Chuck DeGroat said he was arrogant etc and had much baggage and he’s grateful for the mentoring that led him to get counseling. He seems to suggest it’s all too rare and that he would’ve caused harm to others without that timely intervention.
Good thoughts. Essentially, apprentice programs need to be instituted. The other issue is determining what is best for learning how to make disciples, and learning that skill. If we are all about "leadership" in the CEO model, or all about being effective "communicators", rather than how to be a pastor, then it needs to be seen if that is the best method of discipleship in given contexts. As you mentioned, the world is changing, and we can adapt such training as an "art", but if the "art" is ineffective and/or outdated, then such apprentice programs will not be very helpful.
Local church has this https://weareasbury.com/academy/
Are there any apprentice type programs available now? I worked for a Christian residential community (fellowship program, they lived there 9 months post college) and fellows were paired with a mentor in their field. Essentially learning from the mentor what following Christ looked like in their field, challenges they might face etc
Good article. With the times changing pastors need to get a handle on it and lean in and listen to learn.
However, if the ‘art’ being practiced is toxic or within a toxic system, abusers are permitted to flourish. Example: “And now with the help of mentoring Pastor Bob Russell, Pastor Emeritus of one of the largest churches in the country, Garcia is starting to minister again.”
And “A phrase we heard a lot was ‘he comes from good stock’. ”
From: https://julieroys.com/podcast/my-pastor-called-it-an-emotional-affair-but-it-was-abuse/
We all agree.
Local church has this program https://weareasbury.com/academy/