“Consider it the religious version of the Walmart effect that has swept through America – with more and more people deciding to find religion at the spiritual version of big-box stores rather than at small mom-and-pop-style congregations.” This from Bob Smietana’s
For most of my adult life we went to megachurches, had and led mall group experiences, and poured out our time, energy, and money for not much return other than fellowship and entertaining services and robust programming for our kids. Now I’ve joined a local liturgical church of 30 white haired people. The first Sunday the female pastor learned our names and has remembered them ever since. She says my name at communion. She also pastors me and the rest of the flock, and this is the first time I can ever remember feeling that feeling of being under a pastor’s care. This little church plays a vital role in caring for the elderly and poor in our community, and I am blessed to be there and to join in with all they are doing. I will never go back to a megachurch.
I’ve been using the comparison of Walmart and the mega church for a few years now. The larger churches suck out of the little churches money and talent, and drowns out their voice in the community. They are a one-stop-shop for the whole family to get what they need without too much effort. One major difference between Walmart and the mega churches, is you usually get your coffee and donut free from the church.
Many mega churches do discipleship and fellowship very well. They ought to be acknowledged and commended, because it's really hard work, given the number of people they are trying to shepherd. So, I want to be careful, as I think you are here as well, about any critique of them.
One worry and one observation. My worry: they are almost always built up around the charisma of one person, and ultimately the whole thing depends on that individual continuing to do all of the fabulous things, and the sort of individual who can do those fabulous things is 1 in 10,000, maybe. That means tremendous, crushing pressure on that individual and instability in the institution. When the charismatic leader fails, falls, or leaves/retires/dies, the chances of the church surviving/thriving are very, very low. I personally have seen this happen very near me, and we've all seen the implosion and disappearance — almost overnight, a gone-with-the-wind ghost town — of some behemoth congregations when the #1 person fails. And when the church is large enough for the nasty details of the failure of the #1 to be on CNN, it damages all of us.
My observation: Sunday morning "experience" is not church. It's not. It's a parachurch evangelistic crusade or a worship concert or both (and these things are good things)… but it's not recognizable as church according to the New Testament. When they do small groups (life groups, home groups, D-groups) well, THAT gathering is the people's church, where they see one another's faces (tears), hear one another's voices (in laughter or weeping), bear one another's burdens… all of the various (and critical!) "one-another-ing" we are commanded to do. If our church arrangements don't allow us to "one-another one another", we need to find a better way.
We need to be careful about putting church sizes in a box. Not all megachurches are the same. Also, personalities, and maybe even stages of life, may determine why some prefer certain sized churches.
I also think there needs to be a discussion about what is church (the gathering portion) for. It needs to go beyond the "because we are supposed to", or just citing Hebrews. I am not sure there is full agreement (some may say the sermon, some the sacraments, some may say the fellowship, etc....). But then that reason(s) needs to be made clear. Too many stopped going during the pandemic and are asking why didn't they miss it now that they can go back.
Thank you for posting on this topic, Scot. I'm invested and believe in the church, like many others who subscribe to your Substack. You are, too, and have done so longer than most! One small suggestion, the "vs." in the title could be swapped out for "in contrast to" or "compared to"? These forms of church are not or should not be competing, but it is beneficial to compare them. I've weighed both and have chosen to invest in the mini-church way of life, but the "... many people have been burned in small churches and are looking for a safe place." line has me thinking. Keep up the excellent work!
He inspired some large crowds. How many? I’m not sure we really know. He disciples the smaller group(s) of at least twelve.
Every mega church has the resources, and works hard to create many small “sub-churches”? In order to disciple meaningfully.
While on vacation, on two different occasions, I attended the same mega church on three occasions. The worship services were exciting and somewhat meaningful. Discipleship was non-existent from my perspective. Nobody ever approached me with a greeting of any kind. This is a multi campus church with over 25000 people attending services over the course of the weekend. There were small groups. The people I knew were involved in groups, but it was the side-groups of people from other churches that disciples them, and had their loyalty, except for the weekend “show/concert/, etc., which they attended for the energy.
I know of some large congregations and mega-congregations that understand their purpose, and, because they do, they go deep in discipleship, and it shows through how the people live and how the church lives.
I like what Andrew said about the Walmart factor. In the church, that has led to Shaker?-like life that walks along until there is nobody left to walk.
What if large churches were worship centers that fueled smaller church discipleship centers? I know there are places doing this, which is great, but we all can follow Jesus’ “Way” a little more closely and with the fellowship it developed.
I used to sing on the worship team and really enjoyed it! When I stopped, I would run into people out in the community who would always say, I miss your singing. I brought a lot of performance experience to the team, in contrast to some of the other volunteers. But I do have to agree... it really is more of a performance. I stopped going to that church and started attending a smaller one where we were on a rotation and people would say the same thing when I wasn't singing. I always had to fight taking it as a compliment because what they really meant was, 'Why aren't you on the stage entertaining us today?' Didn't Jesus say the rocks would worship him if the people didn't? I don't remember any worship concerts happening in the bible. As I got deep into studying the bible, it felt more and more in opposition to the gospel to get up there and perform.
For most of my adult life we went to megachurches, had and led mall group experiences, and poured out our time, energy, and money for not much return other than fellowship and entertaining services and robust programming for our kids. Now I’ve joined a local liturgical church of 30 white haired people. The first Sunday the female pastor learned our names and has remembered them ever since. She says my name at communion. She also pastors me and the rest of the flock, and this is the first time I can ever remember feeling that feeling of being under a pastor’s care. This little church plays a vital role in caring for the elderly and poor in our community, and I am blessed to be there and to join in with all they are doing. I will never go back to a megachurch.
I’ve been using the comparison of Walmart and the mega church for a few years now. The larger churches suck out of the little churches money and talent, and drowns out their voice in the community. They are a one-stop-shop for the whole family to get what they need without too much effort. One major difference between Walmart and the mega churches, is you usually get your coffee and donut free from the church.
Many mega churches do discipleship and fellowship very well. They ought to be acknowledged and commended, because it's really hard work, given the number of people they are trying to shepherd. So, I want to be careful, as I think you are here as well, about any critique of them.
One worry and one observation. My worry: they are almost always built up around the charisma of one person, and ultimately the whole thing depends on that individual continuing to do all of the fabulous things, and the sort of individual who can do those fabulous things is 1 in 10,000, maybe. That means tremendous, crushing pressure on that individual and instability in the institution. When the charismatic leader fails, falls, or leaves/retires/dies, the chances of the church surviving/thriving are very, very low. I personally have seen this happen very near me, and we've all seen the implosion and disappearance — almost overnight, a gone-with-the-wind ghost town — of some behemoth congregations when the #1 person fails. And when the church is large enough for the nasty details of the failure of the #1 to be on CNN, it damages all of us.
My observation: Sunday morning "experience" is not church. It's not. It's a parachurch evangelistic crusade or a worship concert or both (and these things are good things)… but it's not recognizable as church according to the New Testament. When they do small groups (life groups, home groups, D-groups) well, THAT gathering is the people's church, where they see one another's faces (tears), hear one another's voices (in laughter or weeping), bear one another's burdens… all of the various (and critical!) "one-another-ing" we are commanded to do. If our church arrangements don't allow us to "one-another one another", we need to find a better way.
We need to be careful about putting church sizes in a box. Not all megachurches are the same. Also, personalities, and maybe even stages of life, may determine why some prefer certain sized churches.
I also think there needs to be a discussion about what is church (the gathering portion) for. It needs to go beyond the "because we are supposed to", or just citing Hebrews. I am not sure there is full agreement (some may say the sermon, some the sacraments, some may say the fellowship, etc....). But then that reason(s) needs to be made clear. Too many stopped going during the pandemic and are asking why didn't they miss it now that they can go back.
Thank you for posting on this topic, Scot. I'm invested and believe in the church, like many others who subscribe to your Substack. You are, too, and have done so longer than most! One small suggestion, the "vs." in the title could be swapped out for "in contrast to" or "compared to"? These forms of church are not or should not be competing, but it is beneficial to compare them. I've weighed both and have chosen to invest in the mini-church way of life, but the "... many people have been burned in small churches and are looking for a safe place." line has me thinking. Keep up the excellent work!
WDJD? What did Jesus do?
He inspired some large crowds. How many? I’m not sure we really know. He disciples the smaller group(s) of at least twelve.
Every mega church has the resources, and works hard to create many small “sub-churches”? In order to disciple meaningfully.
While on vacation, on two different occasions, I attended the same mega church on three occasions. The worship services were exciting and somewhat meaningful. Discipleship was non-existent from my perspective. Nobody ever approached me with a greeting of any kind. This is a multi campus church with over 25000 people attending services over the course of the weekend. There were small groups. The people I knew were involved in groups, but it was the side-groups of people from other churches that disciples them, and had their loyalty, except for the weekend “show/concert/, etc., which they attended for the energy.
I know of some large congregations and mega-congregations that understand their purpose, and, because they do, they go deep in discipleship, and it shows through how the people live and how the church lives.
I like what Andrew said about the Walmart factor. In the church, that has led to Shaker?-like life that walks along until there is nobody left to walk.
What if large churches were worship centers that fueled smaller church discipleship centers? I know there are places doing this, which is great, but we all can follow Jesus’ “Way” a little more closely and with the fellowship it developed.
I used to sing on the worship team and really enjoyed it! When I stopped, I would run into people out in the community who would always say, I miss your singing. I brought a lot of performance experience to the team, in contrast to some of the other volunteers. But I do have to agree... it really is more of a performance. I stopped going to that church and started attending a smaller one where we were on a rotation and people would say the same thing when I wasn't singing. I always had to fight taking it as a compliment because what they really meant was, 'Why aren't you on the stage entertaining us today?' Didn't Jesus say the rocks would worship him if the people didn't? I don't remember any worship concerts happening in the bible. As I got deep into studying the bible, it felt more and more in opposition to the gospel to get up there and perform.