I think the birth rate is part of the issue, and certainly adds a metric to assess sustainability, but that’s only part of the whole. Having just recently left the pastorate in a liberal mainline denomination, I can tell you the main reasons me and other pastors and laity have left.
When I was in 7th grade I had a bit of a mouth. One day my teacher turned around, pointed at me and said, “say what you mean and mean what you say!” That stuck with me and years later would associate that statement with the heart of God. If we are to live in the truth, and the truth sets us free, then we must say what we mean and mean what we say.
The mainline denominations in the US run off corporate conglomerate models, over tight knit communities that love God and neighbor. In my experience, our bishop, superintendent, and episcopal cabinet do not say what they mean and mean what they say. In one breath, beautifully written pieces highlighting the sin of racism and how the body of Christ can end that sin. In the next breath, targeting all black congregations in gentrifying areas, closing their churches whether the congregants like it or not, then selling to developers. This is a more progressive conference than most, but the progressive ideals were nothing more than talking points.
The tipping point was our bishop meeting with the black caucus. A member of the caucus asked, “why won’t you appoint any white pastors to black churches?” A number of people in the caucus spoke up in support, with none dissenting. The white bishops loud response, “you don’t know what you need. I know what you need. And you’ll get the people I appoint to you.”
I, and many others, didn’t leave because of theological differences. It was because we saw, contrary to what your article states, that what the mainline is pumping out is in fact superficially shallow. We talk about sacrifice for the greater good, but it ends at talk. If legislation passes at conference, we did our good work and that’s that. In our context, we stood up to evil intentions that further erode and disenfranchise black communities. For that we were ghosted entirely by the cabinet and had higher ups make our lives in the church so uncomfortable we had no choice but to leave. Let me tell you, it really stings when your cut off for that and read emails from the leadership that talk about how important it is for our conference to stand up to evil and do the exact things we did.
Conservatives have more babies, for sure. But denominationalism in the US needs to learn how to say what they mean and mean what they say. All the fiery preaching points and messaging about equity, and loving neighbor end up not meaning much when groups of people say we’re ready to do what’s being preached, and then your cut off for suggesting we stop talking and start doing.
It’s reminiscent of the scene in Monty Pythons Life of Brian, when they are meeting to discuss how to save Brian from crucifixion. Meetings and committees that end with showing solidarity from a distance.
Thank you for this, "Joyful Cynic." I'm thankful for your transparency and your story, but I'm sad over how you and your church were treated. Unacceptable.
It really is a challenge to think that the most effective way to evangelize fruitfully is to be fruitful and multiply. Churches built and perpetuated along these lines look so little like what the beautiful and powerful words of Jesus call us to do and talk about in the Gospels. The underlying demographic pull you've highlighted reminds me of what an atheist friend said years ago: "I'll start to believe in an apparition of the Virgin Mary when it happens smack in the middle of a Buddhist monastery." Our group identity does tend to configure many more of our experiences than we give credit for, as sociologists often say. Thanks for sharing these posts on Perry's book. Week after week, I become convinced it's a compelling read.
I think the birth rate is part of the issue, and certainly adds a metric to assess sustainability, but that’s only part of the whole. Having just recently left the pastorate in a liberal mainline denomination, I can tell you the main reasons me and other pastors and laity have left.
When I was in 7th grade I had a bit of a mouth. One day my teacher turned around, pointed at me and said, “say what you mean and mean what you say!” That stuck with me and years later would associate that statement with the heart of God. If we are to live in the truth, and the truth sets us free, then we must say what we mean and mean what we say.
The mainline denominations in the US run off corporate conglomerate models, over tight knit communities that love God and neighbor. In my experience, our bishop, superintendent, and episcopal cabinet do not say what they mean and mean what they say. In one breath, beautifully written pieces highlighting the sin of racism and how the body of Christ can end that sin. In the next breath, targeting all black congregations in gentrifying areas, closing their churches whether the congregants like it or not, then selling to developers. This is a more progressive conference than most, but the progressive ideals were nothing more than talking points.
The tipping point was our bishop meeting with the black caucus. A member of the caucus asked, “why won’t you appoint any white pastors to black churches?” A number of people in the caucus spoke up in support, with none dissenting. The white bishops loud response, “you don’t know what you need. I know what you need. And you’ll get the people I appoint to you.”
I, and many others, didn’t leave because of theological differences. It was because we saw, contrary to what your article states, that what the mainline is pumping out is in fact superficially shallow. We talk about sacrifice for the greater good, but it ends at talk. If legislation passes at conference, we did our good work and that’s that. In our context, we stood up to evil intentions that further erode and disenfranchise black communities. For that we were ghosted entirely by the cabinet and had higher ups make our lives in the church so uncomfortable we had no choice but to leave. Let me tell you, it really stings when your cut off for that and read emails from the leadership that talk about how important it is for our conference to stand up to evil and do the exact things we did.
Conservatives have more babies, for sure. But denominationalism in the US needs to learn how to say what they mean and mean what they say. All the fiery preaching points and messaging about equity, and loving neighbor end up not meaning much when groups of people say we’re ready to do what’s being preached, and then your cut off for suggesting we stop talking and start doing.
It’s reminiscent of the scene in Monty Pythons Life of Brian, when they are meeting to discuss how to save Brian from crucifixion. Meetings and committees that end with showing solidarity from a distance.
Thank you for this, "Joyful Cynic." I'm thankful for your transparency and your story, but I'm sad over how you and your church were treated. Unacceptable.
It really is a challenge to think that the most effective way to evangelize fruitfully is to be fruitful and multiply. Churches built and perpetuated along these lines look so little like what the beautiful and powerful words of Jesus call us to do and talk about in the Gospels. The underlying demographic pull you've highlighted reminds me of what an atheist friend said years ago: "I'll start to believe in an apparition of the Virgin Mary when it happens smack in the middle of a Buddhist monastery." Our group identity does tend to configure many more of our experiences than we give credit for, as sociologists often say. Thanks for sharing these posts on Perry's book. Week after week, I become convinced it's a compelling read.
Thank you Scott. This is definitely a good subject
The most successful form of evangelism and discipleship is parenting within communities of believers.