I am most struck by Eugene's unhurried nature; his willingness to sit in the present and be still with people. He seemed to always make time for what is most important -- people. I was sad to see this book end!
What shaped me the most about Peterson's life was the way he cared about people. He seemed unconcerned with changing them, and much more concerned with being with them and inviting them into the worship of God. The way he interacted with people will be one of the main things I take away from this book. Eugene Peterson was a pastor in every sense of the word.
Thanks for creating a place for us to discuss this book, Scot! This is the first time I've ever participated in an online book discussion, and I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. I've enjoyed reading through the comments each week and it's been something I've looked forward to each Thursday.
I’m privileged to be a member of Colbert Presbyterian and have Eric Peterson as my pastor. I knew Eugene had a big influence in our church, Eric always says he is a “village pastor”. But after reading this biography I can see how wide and deep that influence goes. Eric has just published a small book “Letters to a young pastor” containing a series of letters that Eugene wrote to him as our church was forming. Eugene calls them “Timothy” letters. In it you can hear how disappointed Eugene was getting with a lot of the American church. He uses the word “silliness” to describe many conferences he attends. Colbert Pres is fortunate to be able to stay small and to afford Eric with the time for sabbaticals and space for prayer. I don’t think many churches have that ability.
Among the top things I’ve appreciated from Peterson- here and in his memoir- was his unbothered confidence that the Lord was working redemptively in the messy lives of the congregation and the chaotic rhythm of the church. I can never be reminded of that enough.
I do think his assertion that “the less people notice you the better” is a corrective overstatement. Some pastors are more extroverted and frequently find themselves in the center of the social action. But, all pastors must be comfortable not being the center of attention. I’ve seen some pastors who obviously couldn’t bear sitting at a side table or being a quiet observer in a conversation. To quote the Teacher, there’s a time to speak and a time to be silent; pastors should learn to recognize both.
I greatly enjoyed this book and weekly discussion. Thank you for leading it, Scot!
I feel like I’ve grown in this idea of pastoral contentment over the past year, with so many people leaving our church. It’s become so much more clear that this is the Lord’s church, not my own, and that I can only pastor those who remain. It’s been a year I never would have chosen, but I think I can already see that God will use it in important and needed ways.
I have been disillusioned by most pastors I’ve seen in my life and in the public. I’ve not found one in which I would be comfortable saying, “That’s the type of pastor I want to be.” I was surprised then when I found myself saying these words reading this biography of Eugene Peterson. You said, “He learned to pastor the people he had not the people he did not have or wanted to have.” I think this is the key for pastoring. This echos what Peter said to the elders, “Like shepherds, tend the flock of God among you.” Too often I’ve seen pastors come and go due to lack of contentment or bigger and better pastures. Peterson avoided this temptation, I pray I do too.
I also admire Peterson’s reluctance to give out advice. Instead he sought to teach people to pray, a task he felt was important for pastors. What would happen to the Church if most pastors took up this task. But alas, from my own experience, and the stats I’ve read, the pastor’s prayer life degrades as we get more busy “doing church”. The busy pastor is not a praying pastor. And a pastor who does not pray will not teach others to pray. One who cannot pray and lean upon God will begin to lean upon the advice of others, or the advice of pastors who are quick to give it. Lord, make me a man of prayer, so that I can teach others to pray.
The schisms Peterson feared for the church have largely come true. It seems as if that left him in the tension of remaining quiet and secluded from the culture and community he had so much influence on (and was influenced by), especially during his latter years.
I wonder what “long obedience in the same direction” would look like if he and Jan were just planting a church today? Would they be able to create a space for those like them, faithful and with questions, living in the tension? Or would Peterson burn out from the conflict around trying to hold it all together?
I’ve bought so many books over the past six months. I guess I need to buy another one. I’m not a pastor, but I’m struggling with going back to church now that the pandemic is fading. Trumpism, Christian nationalism, no mask wearing, no concern over what happened to George Floyd and others….I’ve seen this all in the people I attend church with….and I look back over the last forty years and feel as if the church has caused more harm than good in the lives of my family and our communities. I read this, and I’m reminded that I’ve always known there is no perfect church because there are no perfect people. But if I leave, am I no better than those I’m upset with? Torn…. I’m feeling torn.
I would like to comment on Dr. Eugene Peterson not as pastor but as a professor in theology and the arts at Regent College in Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Dr Peterson was in and out of Regent the years I was a student (he was working on The Message then, I believe) so we listened to his recorded previous lectures or attended his panel discussions and Chapel talks when he was on campus rather than taking a formal class with only him, but even such limited contact was memorable in the way he listened and answered questions and lingered in the bookstore to visit with students.
As an older graduate seminary student at Regent, I wasn’t there for a traditional ministry degree but to study theology in order to write redemptive fiction from a theological position of accuracy—not expecting Dr. Peterson’s new (then) book of spiritual theology “Christ Plays in Ten Thousand Places” to turn theology into the surprise (for me at least) of creative art.
His above book shaped—no, created—for me, and surely for others, an entirely new perspective of Theology and the Arts, one which told me writing as a Christian was to write from the bedrock DNA of who we are in Christ, unhindered by any pre-supposed rules of limitation or formula as to the ‘correct’ way or ‘accepted’ genre in which to be a ‘Christian writer’.
In Dr. Peterson’s words, “the single most important thing to understand in spiritual theology is that it is not about theology... it is a cultivated disposition to live theology.”
And to live theology in whatever form of art we may choose. Instead of ‘why waste time on writing unimportant stories’ or ‘do something that matters like being a missionary doctor’, Dr. Peterson told us that stories matter, that Jesus spoke and taught in story, that story has the power to change lives.
In the above book Dr. Peterson also wrote: “Spirit was not 'spiritual' for our ancestors; it was sensual", and he suggested we consider replacing the word spirit (or spiritual) with the words 'wind' and 'breath’.
Having grown up in the Navajo Nation, where the full meaning of the word ‘wind’ (nilch’i) is the very meaning of life itself—the act of breathing; one’s inner ‘wind’ or soul; the way of communication (remember Wind Talkers?); the spirit wind of holiness or a holy person—it’s hard to describe the communion joy felt in reading a theology book celebrating God as the God of wind and soul and our very breath, the God who communicates in the mystery of music and words, the Holy Spirit God who created earth and sky, water and fire —things we believe, yes, but don’t often hear affirmed from church pulpits where ‘doing’ so often supersedes ‘being’ in God’s creation.
A part of the Regent College tribute and obituary contains the words of Dr. Peterson himself as his summation of Theology and the Arts. It reads:
‘Dr. Peterson and his wife, Jan, returned to Regent in 2013 for the dedication of the Eugene and Jan Peterson Chair in Theology and the Arts. His lecture Why This Chair? began, “Theology is the North Pole and art the South Pole of the Christian Life. Theology is the study of what God does and says; art is what people say and do in the entire context of what God says and does….You can’t have one without the other.”’
I love his point about pastoring the people and the church that you have -- and it's hard to do! The thing that helps me the most there is actually taking time with people -- sitting with the people who drive me the craziest and asking Jesus to help me see them the way he does. And trying to ask Jesus how I can participate in the work he's doing in that person's life -- which is so often a totally different thing than the agenda I'd have for him or her (thanks be to God!). When I can get a glimpse of THAT, it feels like God's love is breaking through.
I did my undergrad internship with a minister who had me read numerous Peterson books. The one that stuck with the most, even just based on the title alone, was A LONG OBEDIENCE IN THE SAME DIRECTION.
I so appreciate Peterson's aversion to the "celebrity pastor," which I used to long for on some levels (when I was younger, more arrogant, more foolish, and deeply rooted in that kind of church culture), but now want absolutely nothing to do with on any level.
I also appreciate his leanings toward Christian universalism, which I increasingly share the older I get. I think David Bentley Hart's book on the subject was more substantive than Bell's, but Bell's was far more gracious, and I am not surprised Peterson appreciated it.
If he had no certainty on the topic of human sexuality and same sex marriage, I appreciate that his uncertainty ultimately led him to be open/gracious instead of dogmatic and restrictive. It saddens me his views on this subject were misrepresented towards the end of his life, but am glad the record has been set straight (no pun intended) in recent months.
I will always be grateful for his imperfect attempts at life-long faithfulness. If he stumbled or failed, it seems he at least did so in the right direction, which is often the best we can do I think.
I've been grateful for this read, for the discussions, for the man of substance that Eugene Peterson was. Depth comes from stillness, and he was drawn to it. I am challenged to embrace it more in this noisy world. Thanks, Scot!
My biggest take away from the text: to take more seriously the role of prayer in my own life.
Eric's comment about his dad's faith in the face of growing dementia: "That life of prayer grooved itself deep inside my dad, and he had full access to that until the day he died. I think in those last months, Dad was simply descending deeper into that interior world that he'd built with God his entire life—only we could not access it with him.” It was perhaps in those moments, even when Eugene was not acutely aware of his own surroundings, that he was most aware of God.
Thanks, Scot, for leading this conversation. I really enjoyed it.
A couple ideas for another book discussion: Pastor in a Secular Age/The Congregation in a Secular Age (both by Andrew Root)
I am most struck by Eugene's unhurried nature; his willingness to sit in the present and be still with people. He seemed to always make time for what is most important -- people. I was sad to see this book end!
What shaped me the most about Peterson's life was the way he cared about people. He seemed unconcerned with changing them, and much more concerned with being with them and inviting them into the worship of God. The way he interacted with people will be one of the main things I take away from this book. Eugene Peterson was a pastor in every sense of the word.
Thanks for creating a place for us to discuss this book, Scot! This is the first time I've ever participated in an online book discussion, and I enjoyed it much more than I thought I would. I've enjoyed reading through the comments each week and it's been something I've looked forward to each Thursday.
I’m privileged to be a member of Colbert Presbyterian and have Eric Peterson as my pastor. I knew Eugene had a big influence in our church, Eric always says he is a “village pastor”. But after reading this biography I can see how wide and deep that influence goes. Eric has just published a small book “Letters to a young pastor” containing a series of letters that Eugene wrote to him as our church was forming. Eugene calls them “Timothy” letters. In it you can hear how disappointed Eugene was getting with a lot of the American church. He uses the word “silliness” to describe many conferences he attends. Colbert Pres is fortunate to be able to stay small and to afford Eric with the time for sabbaticals and space for prayer. I don’t think many churches have that ability.
Among the top things I’ve appreciated from Peterson- here and in his memoir- was his unbothered confidence that the Lord was working redemptively in the messy lives of the congregation and the chaotic rhythm of the church. I can never be reminded of that enough.
I do think his assertion that “the less people notice you the better” is a corrective overstatement. Some pastors are more extroverted and frequently find themselves in the center of the social action. But, all pastors must be comfortable not being the center of attention. I’ve seen some pastors who obviously couldn’t bear sitting at a side table or being a quiet observer in a conversation. To quote the Teacher, there’s a time to speak and a time to be silent; pastors should learn to recognize both.
I greatly enjoyed this book and weekly discussion. Thank you for leading it, Scot!
I feel like I’ve grown in this idea of pastoral contentment over the past year, with so many people leaving our church. It’s become so much more clear that this is the Lord’s church, not my own, and that I can only pastor those who remain. It’s been a year I never would have chosen, but I think I can already see that God will use it in important and needed ways.
I have been disillusioned by most pastors I’ve seen in my life and in the public. I’ve not found one in which I would be comfortable saying, “That’s the type of pastor I want to be.” I was surprised then when I found myself saying these words reading this biography of Eugene Peterson. You said, “He learned to pastor the people he had not the people he did not have or wanted to have.” I think this is the key for pastoring. This echos what Peter said to the elders, “Like shepherds, tend the flock of God among you.” Too often I’ve seen pastors come and go due to lack of contentment or bigger and better pastures. Peterson avoided this temptation, I pray I do too.
I also admire Peterson’s reluctance to give out advice. Instead he sought to teach people to pray, a task he felt was important for pastors. What would happen to the Church if most pastors took up this task. But alas, from my own experience, and the stats I’ve read, the pastor’s prayer life degrades as we get more busy “doing church”. The busy pastor is not a praying pastor. And a pastor who does not pray will not teach others to pray. One who cannot pray and lean upon God will begin to lean upon the advice of others, or the advice of pastors who are quick to give it. Lord, make me a man of prayer, so that I can teach others to pray.
The schisms Peterson feared for the church have largely come true. It seems as if that left him in the tension of remaining quiet and secluded from the culture and community he had so much influence on (and was influenced by), especially during his latter years.
I wonder what “long obedience in the same direction” would look like if he and Jan were just planting a church today? Would they be able to create a space for those like them, faithful and with questions, living in the tension? Or would Peterson burn out from the conflict around trying to hold it all together?
I’ve bought so many books over the past six months. I guess I need to buy another one. I’m not a pastor, but I’m struggling with going back to church now that the pandemic is fading. Trumpism, Christian nationalism, no mask wearing, no concern over what happened to George Floyd and others….I’ve seen this all in the people I attend church with….and I look back over the last forty years and feel as if the church has caused more harm than good in the lives of my family and our communities. I read this, and I’m reminded that I’ve always known there is no perfect church because there are no perfect people. But if I leave, am I no better than those I’m upset with? Torn…. I’m feeling torn.
I would like to comment on Dr. Eugene Peterson not as pastor but as a professor in theology and the arts at Regent College in Vancouver, BC, Canada.
Dr Peterson was in and out of Regent the years I was a student (he was working on The Message then, I believe) so we listened to his recorded previous lectures or attended his panel discussions and Chapel talks when he was on campus rather than taking a formal class with only him, but even such limited contact was memorable in the way he listened and answered questions and lingered in the bookstore to visit with students.
As an older graduate seminary student at Regent, I wasn’t there for a traditional ministry degree but to study theology in order to write redemptive fiction from a theological position of accuracy—not expecting Dr. Peterson’s new (then) book of spiritual theology “Christ Plays in Ten Thousand Places” to turn theology into the surprise (for me at least) of creative art.
His above book shaped—no, created—for me, and surely for others, an entirely new perspective of Theology and the Arts, one which told me writing as a Christian was to write from the bedrock DNA of who we are in Christ, unhindered by any pre-supposed rules of limitation or formula as to the ‘correct’ way or ‘accepted’ genre in which to be a ‘Christian writer’.
In Dr. Peterson’s words, “the single most important thing to understand in spiritual theology is that it is not about theology... it is a cultivated disposition to live theology.”
And to live theology in whatever form of art we may choose. Instead of ‘why waste time on writing unimportant stories’ or ‘do something that matters like being a missionary doctor’, Dr. Peterson told us that stories matter, that Jesus spoke and taught in story, that story has the power to change lives.
In the above book Dr. Peterson also wrote: “Spirit was not 'spiritual' for our ancestors; it was sensual", and he suggested we consider replacing the word spirit (or spiritual) with the words 'wind' and 'breath’.
Having grown up in the Navajo Nation, where the full meaning of the word ‘wind’ (nilch’i) is the very meaning of life itself—the act of breathing; one’s inner ‘wind’ or soul; the way of communication (remember Wind Talkers?); the spirit wind of holiness or a holy person—it’s hard to describe the communion joy felt in reading a theology book celebrating God as the God of wind and soul and our very breath, the God who communicates in the mystery of music and words, the Holy Spirit God who created earth and sky, water and fire —things we believe, yes, but don’t often hear affirmed from church pulpits where ‘doing’ so often supersedes ‘being’ in God’s creation.
A part of the Regent College tribute and obituary contains the words of Dr. Peterson himself as his summation of Theology and the Arts. It reads:
‘Dr. Peterson and his wife, Jan, returned to Regent in 2013 for the dedication of the Eugene and Jan Peterson Chair in Theology and the Arts. His lecture Why This Chair? began, “Theology is the North Pole and art the South Pole of the Christian Life. Theology is the study of what God does and says; art is what people say and do in the entire context of what God says and does….You can’t have one without the other.”’
I love his point about pastoring the people and the church that you have -- and it's hard to do! The thing that helps me the most there is actually taking time with people -- sitting with the people who drive me the craziest and asking Jesus to help me see them the way he does. And trying to ask Jesus how I can participate in the work he's doing in that person's life -- which is so often a totally different thing than the agenda I'd have for him or her (thanks be to God!). When I can get a glimpse of THAT, it feels like God's love is breaking through.
I did my undergrad internship with a minister who had me read numerous Peterson books. The one that stuck with the most, even just based on the title alone, was A LONG OBEDIENCE IN THE SAME DIRECTION.
I so appreciate Peterson's aversion to the "celebrity pastor," which I used to long for on some levels (when I was younger, more arrogant, more foolish, and deeply rooted in that kind of church culture), but now want absolutely nothing to do with on any level.
I also appreciate his leanings toward Christian universalism, which I increasingly share the older I get. I think David Bentley Hart's book on the subject was more substantive than Bell's, but Bell's was far more gracious, and I am not surprised Peterson appreciated it.
If he had no certainty on the topic of human sexuality and same sex marriage, I appreciate that his uncertainty ultimately led him to be open/gracious instead of dogmatic and restrictive. It saddens me his views on this subject were misrepresented towards the end of his life, but am glad the record has been set straight (no pun intended) in recent months.
I will always be grateful for his imperfect attempts at life-long faithfulness. If he stumbled or failed, it seems he at least did so in the right direction, which is often the best we can do I think.
I've been grateful for this read, for the discussions, for the man of substance that Eugene Peterson was. Depth comes from stillness, and he was drawn to it. I am challenged to embrace it more in this noisy world. Thanks, Scot!
My biggest take away from the text: to take more seriously the role of prayer in my own life.
Eric's comment about his dad's faith in the face of growing dementia: "That life of prayer grooved itself deep inside my dad, and he had full access to that until the day he died. I think in those last months, Dad was simply descending deeper into that interior world that he'd built with God his entire life—only we could not access it with him.” It was perhaps in those moments, even when Eugene was not acutely aware of his own surroundings, that he was most aware of God.
Thanks, Scot, for leading this conversation. I really enjoyed it.
A couple ideas for another book discussion: Pastor in a Secular Age/The Congregation in a Secular Age (both by Andrew Root)
❤️