Thank you, Scot, for adding your voice to this. It appears TGC has a scapegoat in this, and it does appear to be image management instead of true change of listening to women. I agree with your quote: “For them, TGC is top form in the evangelical world. For many of us, instead, it is one recent facet of the evangelical world. There are many thinkers on marriage with different worldviews and the TGC does not interact with, actually listen to, or learn from the give and take of such worldviews. Instead, it polemicizes against feminism and egalitarianism. The moment that book exited that siloed worldview it drew fire. The surprise of those in that world precisely reveals the silo itself.”
This is a serious discussion that has many consequences for the real lives of women and their agency and their bodies (and the control of such) and this part of the apologetic bon-apology really bothered me: “we want to produce content...” Talking theology on such an influential platform is a heck of a lot more than just cranking out content and getting page views. Just a gross way to describe what they're doing over at TGC. They might as well use AI.
I am in a state of shock over this!! It is simply disgusting to me that Christian men would, or even could, see their Christian sisters, their wives, in this way. I cannot find anymore words as I sit here just shaking my head while being completely dumbfounded!! Sorry, to my sisters in Christ.
It’s quite saddening reading excerpts from this awful article and finding the views were welcomed apparently in the TGC. I was once in that world and followed several strong complementarian women on social media. Eventually it all seemed to come back to the man wanting sex at difficult times, like just as his wife was about to go for coffee with a friend, or had just fed the baby and was stumbling into bed exhausted, and she had to ‘be gladly receptive’. And disputation was quickly silenced on the site as ‘following the world’. It was quite sickening as this was practically all it was about. Men having their way. It’s grievous that large organisations support this type of chattel-hood. And that everyone just follows along, perhaps to scared to speak up lest they dishonour God and bring a curse down on themselves (or some such other threat- these things tend to all go together, I’ve seen).
Helpful observations, Scott. I'm curious what you think of Rod Dreher's response to all the outrage? Josh Butler is a dear personal friend of mine, so this one's hard for me to navigate emotionally. I agree that a Spirit-drenched listening session is in order.
I don't engage with Rod Dreher much but I skimmed his long piece and I'd say he needs to read Eph 5 more carefully to see what Paul actually said. I know Josh, too. I'm sad for him.
Yeah, I don't read Dreher much either. His article was shared amongst a community of theologically diverse pastors that Josh and I are part of. Dreher's quote from Chrysostom is illuminating.
Hi Scot, Thank you so much for this. "Where are the critiques of substance..."? Oh my Lord, yes. I've been a marriage counselor for 30 years, specializing in sexual betrayal recovery for the past 13, and I can say this: sexual trauma, addiction and abuse in Christian marriage is still, somehow, denied in our churches. I would like to submit, however, that framing this issue in categories of competing theologies (Comp versus Egal), while accurate and needed, can sideswipe the deeper issue which is the insidious co-opting of spiritual and sexual abuse. Twisting theology to justify male sexual dominance over women is not poor theology, it is spiritual abuse masking itself as a theological debate. People who write this stuff actually want to be challenge in intellectual terms so that they can continue their theological gaslighting. What they need to be invited to is a 6-12 month leave of absence in recovery, personal accountability, and good Christian therapy and spiritual direction. They need to see their broken theology, not in theological debate, but through the lens of their personal sexual brokeness - and there, in that place, to meet Christ. Lastly, we need seasoned trauma therapists who also think deeply theologically - Langberg, Allender - to come to the table with people like you and Hutton. It's time those silos crash down hard.
Thank you for this. I shared your article on my fb timeline with the following intro:
This is Scot McKnight's response to The Gospel Coalition (TGC) and it's review of Josh Butler's recent book, Beautiful Union. McKnight is the author of The Blue Parakeet and Revelation for the Rest of Us (I highly recommend both).
McKnight's three points on the TGC review of Butler's book reflect my thoughts exactly on modern politicians disguised as evangelicals, promoting a secular patriarchal political ideology that allows white males to maintain their desperate stranglehold on political power in North America. As McKnight illustrates in this post, our current conservative political ideology -- dressed up to look 'christian' -- behaves more like Rome and Babylon than it does Christ. Naturally, the patriarchal 'anti-abortion' stance allows white conservative males to oppress and subjugate female bodies, remove women from any political power, and therefore remove females as a perceived threat to male dominance/power.
As if equality could be perceived as a 'threat.'
Scot McKnight asserts: there is nothing surprising about the events that took place within the TGC last week.
Thank you, Scot, for adding your voice to this. It appears TGC has a scapegoat in this, and it does appear to be image management instead of true change of listening to women. I agree with your quote: “For them, TGC is top form in the evangelical world. For many of us, instead, it is one recent facet of the evangelical world. There are many thinkers on marriage with different worldviews and the TGC does not interact with, actually listen to, or learn from the give and take of such worldviews. Instead, it polemicizes against feminism and egalitarianism. The moment that book exited that siloed worldview it drew fire. The surprise of those in that world precisely reveals the silo itself.”
Thanks Lori. I kept asking myself, What are they actually apologizing about?
This is a serious discussion that has many consequences for the real lives of women and their agency and their bodies (and the control of such) and this part of the apologetic bon-apology really bothered me: “we want to produce content...” Talking theology on such an influential platform is a heck of a lot more than just cranking out content and getting page views. Just a gross way to describe what they're doing over at TGC. They might as well use AI.
I am in a state of shock over this!! It is simply disgusting to me that Christian men would, or even could, see their Christian sisters, their wives, in this way. I cannot find anymore words as I sit here just shaking my head while being completely dumbfounded!! Sorry, to my sisters in Christ.
It’s quite saddening reading excerpts from this awful article and finding the views were welcomed apparently in the TGC. I was once in that world and followed several strong complementarian women on social media. Eventually it all seemed to come back to the man wanting sex at difficult times, like just as his wife was about to go for coffee with a friend, or had just fed the baby and was stumbling into bed exhausted, and she had to ‘be gladly receptive’. And disputation was quickly silenced on the site as ‘following the world’. It was quite sickening as this was practically all it was about. Men having their way. It’s grievous that large organisations support this type of chattel-hood. And that everyone just follows along, perhaps to scared to speak up lest they dishonour God and bring a curse down on themselves (or some such other threat- these things tend to all go together, I’ve seen).
Thank you Mary.
Helpful observations, Scott. I'm curious what you think of Rod Dreher's response to all the outrage? Josh Butler is a dear personal friend of mine, so this one's hard for me to navigate emotionally. I agree that a Spirit-drenched listening session is in order.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/the-um-joy-of-evangelical-sex/
I don't engage with Rod Dreher much but I skimmed his long piece and I'd say he needs to read Eph 5 more carefully to see what Paul actually said. I know Josh, too. I'm sad for him.
Yeah, I don't read Dreher much either. His article was shared amongst a community of theologically diverse pastors that Josh and I are part of. Dreher's quote from Chrysostom is illuminating.
Hi Scot, Thank you so much for this. "Where are the critiques of substance..."? Oh my Lord, yes. I've been a marriage counselor for 30 years, specializing in sexual betrayal recovery for the past 13, and I can say this: sexual trauma, addiction and abuse in Christian marriage is still, somehow, denied in our churches. I would like to submit, however, that framing this issue in categories of competing theologies (Comp versus Egal), while accurate and needed, can sideswipe the deeper issue which is the insidious co-opting of spiritual and sexual abuse. Twisting theology to justify male sexual dominance over women is not poor theology, it is spiritual abuse masking itself as a theological debate. People who write this stuff actually want to be challenge in intellectual terms so that they can continue their theological gaslighting. What they need to be invited to is a 6-12 month leave of absence in recovery, personal accountability, and good Christian therapy and spiritual direction. They need to see their broken theology, not in theological debate, but through the lens of their personal sexual brokeness - and there, in that place, to meet Christ. Lastly, we need seasoned trauma therapists who also think deeply theologically - Langberg, Allender - to come to the table with people like you and Hutton. It's time those silos crash down hard.
I'm glad you're pointing this out Scot.
Thank you for this. I shared your article on my fb timeline with the following intro:
This is Scot McKnight's response to The Gospel Coalition (TGC) and it's review of Josh Butler's recent book, Beautiful Union. McKnight is the author of The Blue Parakeet and Revelation for the Rest of Us (I highly recommend both).
McKnight's three points on the TGC review of Butler's book reflect my thoughts exactly on modern politicians disguised as evangelicals, promoting a secular patriarchal political ideology that allows white males to maintain their desperate stranglehold on political power in North America. As McKnight illustrates in this post, our current conservative political ideology -- dressed up to look 'christian' -- behaves more like Rome and Babylon than it does Christ. Naturally, the patriarchal 'anti-abortion' stance allows white conservative males to oppress and subjugate female bodies, remove women from any political power, and therefore remove females as a perceived threat to male dominance/power.
As if equality could be perceived as a 'threat.'
Scot McKnight asserts: there is nothing surprising about the events that took place within the TGC last week.
Sadly.
Nothing.