This is such a hard line to walk. As pastor of a very small church, all of my members are my friends. But they are a different kind of friend. I have a responsibility before God for them. I am always “on.” (IYKYK) It is not an equal feeling of weightiness on their part. However, I do not hold back my heart or affection. I do not hide part of me away. They have full access. And sometimes, that means I get hurt. But I believe that is what love does. I am learning to say, “I need a break” when my church people start to demand more of my time than is healthy. And I have trained people in my life not to expect instant replies to every text, call or email. So yes, boundaries. But also yes, emotionally entangled lives. It’s messy. But it’s real love. Real life. Painful and rewarding and tragic and beautiful.
Scot, I share some of the hesitation Tamara and Carolyn voiced. I think it’s pushing caution too far to limit pastoral relationships to merely the “professional” category and therefore not a friendship. That may work for a therapist, but I don’t think it does for a pastor. For instance, a therapist can keep their family distant from their clientele, but I would have to send my wife and kids to another church than the one I pastor to do so.
I believe a more helpful approach is what Pete Scazzero describes in The Emotionally Healthy Leader. He calls these “dual relationships.” This recognizes that I am always a pastor even as a genuine friendship develops. This adds a complexity that both parties must understand. But such friendships are possible in wise, healthy people, and I’ve been greatly blessed by those in my church. I’ve found those who pastored elsewhere and are now members of the church understand this dynamic well, and they respect it.
While a pastor needs deep friendships outside the church, I think resisting these dual relationships because of their complexity would be robbing the pastor of a gift.
Notice this, Doug: "So, how do pastors find friendships, and they are clear that the deepest friendships will often (or more than that) be outside the church, not inside the church." They can occur in the church. I don't know what term to use other than "professional" because a pastor's relationship to a person in the church is not the same as friendship between congregants. What changes?
Yes, it’s a professional relationship, but not merely a professional relationship. That’s why I find Scazzerro’s language helpful. It allows for appropriately boundaries friendships. Some of the quotes from the book sound somewhat mercenary or CEO-like to me. If I misread that, my fault.
I hesitate with the characterization of the pastor as a professional relationship that should not be relationally entangled with his congregation. Where do we see that advice in Scripture? Can you imagine Paul writing to those who hosted churches in their homes (closest thing to a pastor) not to get too relationally close to their siblings in Christ?
This sounds more like a book geared towards those who view church as a business. If the pastor is foremost a professional separate from his/her congregation in order to avoid being wounded by them, why should the congregation take on the risk of close knit community with one another where they also will likely be wounded by one another? This attitude fosters the kind of view of church where parishioners are either coming to benefit from the programming or to meet altruistic desires to volunteer and the pastor is the CEO calling the shots. The church should be a community of Tov oriented brothers and sisters (pastors included) practicing "one anothering" commands which most certainly includes intimacy and thereby the risk of deep wounds. Otherwise, let's stop pretending the church is a community or family and call it what its become: an institution.
Yes, of course, pastors have personal relationships with people, so I'm not sure I'd agree that the above says not to be "relationally entangled" (though that second word can evoke different senses). Here's the balance that I see in this chp and in the NT: relationships that do not break down the pastoral relationship. Think about this in terms of a therapist: a therapist needs to form a relationship without enmeshment and without breaking down the therapist-client relationship. Professors have that with students; administrators with faculty and staff. Pastors with congregants. There is something that needs to be safeguarded about the pastoral relationship.
I suppose it begs the question, “what is the pastoral relationship?”
Jesus, in his final discourse with his disciples prior to his death said, I no longer call you servants, but I call you friends, because I have told you everything…. And no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends
I’ve wondered aloud, maybe much of the loneliness us pastors endure is related more so to what we’ve held back, than to having connected too much… of course, I’ve also felt the burn of having given much and received nothing in return
Having grown up in a Pres church and having worked in two UMC churches, I have seen the denominational structuralism which effects so many pastors negatively in relationship to friendship
I’m interested to see how the posts on this book continue to flesh this concept out… as friendship is deeply important to some aspects of ministry, especially today, where pastors are put on pedestals (which of course, we know you don’t support), and others treat pastors like charlatans
I also pastor a church that is smaller than what you would call small. We are about 30 people that gather together, with almost half of them being 17 and younger. I have been pastor in this little Mennonite Church for 20 years. I love these people dearly and they love me. They are my friends. We are the family of God together in our tiny rural village. It's messy and I've been hurt. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. I value my friendships outside my church. But it's hard, since I am the only pastor in Eyebrow. People living in my community see me as their pastor even although they don't go to my church. I'm sorry, I had a hard time reading this post from the book. It seems it's being written for a large church and doesn't take into consideration that there are lots of different sized churches and one size doesn't fit all. I appreciate what Tamara wrote, because I, too, set boundaries. And it is real life, painful and rewarding and hard and beautiful.
This is such a hard line to walk. As pastor of a very small church, all of my members are my friends. But they are a different kind of friend. I have a responsibility before God for them. I am always “on.” (IYKYK) It is not an equal feeling of weightiness on their part. However, I do not hold back my heart or affection. I do not hide part of me away. They have full access. And sometimes, that means I get hurt. But I believe that is what love does. I am learning to say, “I need a break” when my church people start to demand more of my time than is healthy. And I have trained people in my life not to expect instant replies to every text, call or email. So yes, boundaries. But also yes, emotionally entangled lives. It’s messy. But it’s real love. Real life. Painful and rewarding and tragic and beautiful.
Scot, I share some of the hesitation Tamara and Carolyn voiced. I think it’s pushing caution too far to limit pastoral relationships to merely the “professional” category and therefore not a friendship. That may work for a therapist, but I don’t think it does for a pastor. For instance, a therapist can keep their family distant from their clientele, but I would have to send my wife and kids to another church than the one I pastor to do so.
I believe a more helpful approach is what Pete Scazzero describes in The Emotionally Healthy Leader. He calls these “dual relationships.” This recognizes that I am always a pastor even as a genuine friendship develops. This adds a complexity that both parties must understand. But such friendships are possible in wise, healthy people, and I’ve been greatly blessed by those in my church. I’ve found those who pastored elsewhere and are now members of the church understand this dynamic well, and they respect it.
While a pastor needs deep friendships outside the church, I think resisting these dual relationships because of their complexity would be robbing the pastor of a gift.
Notice this, Doug: "So, how do pastors find friendships, and they are clear that the deepest friendships will often (or more than that) be outside the church, not inside the church." They can occur in the church. I don't know what term to use other than "professional" because a pastor's relationship to a person in the church is not the same as friendship between congregants. What changes?
Yes, it’s a professional relationship, but not merely a professional relationship. That’s why I find Scazzerro’s language helpful. It allows for appropriately boundaries friendships. Some of the quotes from the book sound somewhat mercenary or CEO-like to me. If I misread that, my fault.
I hesitate with the characterization of the pastor as a professional relationship that should not be relationally entangled with his congregation. Where do we see that advice in Scripture? Can you imagine Paul writing to those who hosted churches in their homes (closest thing to a pastor) not to get too relationally close to their siblings in Christ?
This sounds more like a book geared towards those who view church as a business. If the pastor is foremost a professional separate from his/her congregation in order to avoid being wounded by them, why should the congregation take on the risk of close knit community with one another where they also will likely be wounded by one another? This attitude fosters the kind of view of church where parishioners are either coming to benefit from the programming or to meet altruistic desires to volunteer and the pastor is the CEO calling the shots. The church should be a community of Tov oriented brothers and sisters (pastors included) practicing "one anothering" commands which most certainly includes intimacy and thereby the risk of deep wounds. Otherwise, let's stop pretending the church is a community or family and call it what its become: an institution.
Yes, of course, pastors have personal relationships with people, so I'm not sure I'd agree that the above says not to be "relationally entangled" (though that second word can evoke different senses). Here's the balance that I see in this chp and in the NT: relationships that do not break down the pastoral relationship. Think about this in terms of a therapist: a therapist needs to form a relationship without enmeshment and without breaking down the therapist-client relationship. Professors have that with students; administrators with faculty and staff. Pastors with congregants. There is something that needs to be safeguarded about the pastoral relationship.
I suppose it begs the question, “what is the pastoral relationship?”
Jesus, in his final discourse with his disciples prior to his death said, I no longer call you servants, but I call you friends, because I have told you everything…. And no greater love has a man than to lay down his life for his friends
I’ve wondered aloud, maybe much of the loneliness us pastors endure is related more so to what we’ve held back, than to having connected too much… of course, I’ve also felt the burn of having given much and received nothing in return
Having grown up in a Pres church and having worked in two UMC churches, I have seen the denominational structuralism which effects so many pastors negatively in relationship to friendship
I’m interested to see how the posts on this book continue to flesh this concept out… as friendship is deeply important to some aspects of ministry, especially today, where pastors are put on pedestals (which of course, we know you don’t support), and others treat pastors like charlatans
I also pastor a church that is smaller than what you would call small. We are about 30 people that gather together, with almost half of them being 17 and younger. I have been pastor in this little Mennonite Church for 20 years. I love these people dearly and they love me. They are my friends. We are the family of God together in our tiny rural village. It's messy and I've been hurt. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. I value my friendships outside my church. But it's hard, since I am the only pastor in Eyebrow. People living in my community see me as their pastor even although they don't go to my church. I'm sorry, I had a hard time reading this post from the book. It seems it's being written for a large church and doesn't take into consideration that there are lots of different sized churches and one size doesn't fit all. I appreciate what Tamara wrote, because I, too, set boundaries. And it is real life, painful and rewarding and hard and beautiful.
Thank you Scott for sharing this book. I know when I pastored a small congregation, I’m was thankful I had a job in the printing industry.